Your Opinons on this

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Re: Your Opinons on this

Postby Unbridled Spirit » Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:27 am

DarkFairy wrote:
clark bailey wrote:Christian burial and funerals were originally to prepare the body to rest till resurrection.


:) I actually knew that little fact clark but it still doesn't mean that during the service the pastor should tell the grieving family that if they do not repent they will never see their loved one again, or that they are going to hell. Ya know?



I think thats just the preacher being tacky!
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Re: Your Opinons on this

Postby DarkFairy » Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:39 am

Have to correct something, the above post was in reference to the 5th link, this one I will talk about the 4th a bit.

This is still the quote from 5th link (just for reference point)
Quote:
Salvation cannot in any way be caused by anything a man can do.


"Repent therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out" (Act 3:19)

Now... a man must repent for the sins to be blotted out, correct? Isn't that an action by man?

4th Link:

Why We Don't Use The Altar Call
1. It contradicts the Bible doctrine of the depravity or the inability of man.

God’s word teaches that because of the fall of Adam into sin man is by nature spiritually dead. As Paul states it in Ephesians 2:1 man is "dead in trespasses and sins." A man who is spiritually dead can do nothing spiritual. He can’t even will to repent of sin and trust in Christ. He is dead!

God’s word teaches that because of their depravity men are helpless to save or help save themselves. This means that there is absolutely nothing a sinner can do to save himself or prepare himself for salvation. Spiritually dead sinners can never come to Christ until God calls them with a special, powerful, effectual call. This is what the Lord Jesus is talking about in John 6:44 when He says, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him..." or literally, No man is able or has the power to come to me except the Father draw him."


So... According to these little tidbits... a man can do nothing to help save themselves, he is spiritually dead. SO, how exactly does he become spiritually alive? Seeing as how it says a spiritually dead man can not even repent his sins or trust in Christ? And to be saved you must repent your sins. It sounds to me like they are just doomed pretty much, when God does call the man can't repent or trust in him because he is spiritually dead.(ephesians verse above)

contradictory
(verses below)


"Repent therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out" (Act 3:19)

"testified both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ" (Acts 20:21)


Anyone else besides me see the contradiction?
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Re: Your Opinons on this

Postby Campground Man » Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:37 pm

DarkFairy wrote:Me too Funk, I respect CGM and have intended on going to his Church on a couple of occasions but I have yet to make it down there. (nice to see ya CGM, been a while!)

Also, CGM, I was at a funeral one time and the preacher did the exact same thing you were talking about and I was pissed! It was so disrespectful and uncalled for to say something like that when someone is grieving over a lost loved one. I think maybe they are trying to take advantage of the persons unstable emotional state when they do that.


Gfunk and DF,

I'd be happy to have you visit, we get very few local visitors and would appreciate having you guys attend with us. The only harrassment you'd receive is a lot of folks saying 'Hi' before the service and maybe some handshakes afterwords.

As for what you (DF) said about the links - yes they are absolutely contradictory. Read all through Acts and show me any conversions that occurred where they guy was alone with his own thoughts or without repentence. There are several things that people had to "do" in order to become a Christian within the bible.

To gain salvation a person has to DO several things...

They had to believe - Hebrews 11, and dozens of other verses.
They had to repent - Luke 13:3 Jesus said you'd perish without it. (to me this is the HARDEST one has to do)
They have to confess Christ - Rom 10:9-10
They have to be baptized for the remission of sins - Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16, 1 Peter 3:21 (and about 4 more scriptures)

They had to live faithful unto death. II Tim 4:7, Rev 2:10.

In a nutshell what we HAVE to do, to obtain salvation is OBEY God.

Because we obey, did we earn it? No, we don't deserve salvation even if we live right - it is a gift.

If I told you that I'd give you a free Tee Shirt for signing a form at my office - does signing the form mean that you "earned" a free shirt?

Would you receive the free shirt if you didn't obey the terms to receive it?

Now compare that analogy with that of God's promise. Salvation is free, but you do what he said to receive the free gift.
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Re: Your Opinons on this

Postby Angry Whiteguy » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:26 pm

People, people, people!!! You are complicating the simplest, and most satisfying thing you can do while on earth... This is why I hate churches and preachers so much... Try to confound your brethren as much as possible to maintain the integrity and purity of your flock... Don't worry tho children, if the confusion drives you away, the shepherd that led you astray will bear your punishment...
Never think the call to the clergy is without risk or responsibility... You put on that mantel you are dealing in a dangerous field and taken lightly can submit you to a punishment unlike any other... If you claim to be something you better be what you claim..!
Your government is your master!!! Resistance is illegal, and futile!!!
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Re: Your Opinons on this

Postby DarkFairy » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:28 pm

CGM,

I am so glad to see that it wasn't just me who could see the contradiction in those pages. I knew there was other things people had to do to obtain salvation but I didn't know the verses to go with them so I generalized. :)

I'll write more later, gotta cook supper right now.
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Re: Your Opinons on this

Postby Angry Whiteguy » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:29 pm

DarkFairy wrote:CGM,

I am so glad to see that it wasn't just me who could see the contradiction in those pages. I knew there was other things people had to do to obtain salvation but I didn't know the verses to go with them so I generalized. :)

I'll write more later, gotta cook supper right now.

What are we having..?
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Re: Your Opinons on this

Postby DarkFairy » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:33 pm

Joe Average Whiteguy wrote:
DarkFairy wrote:CGM,

I am so glad to see that it wasn't just me who could see the contradiction in those pages. I knew there was other things people had to do to obtain salvation but I didn't know the verses to go with them so I generalized. :)

I'll write more later, gotta cook supper right now.

What are we having..?


Umm... Pork chops baked in white wine, butter, onion, rosemary and some other goodies, Green beans and probably mac and cheese since I don't have any potatoes at the moment. lol or maybe hashbrowns....ain't decided. (those are frozen, I ain't crazy) :)
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Re: Your Opinons on this

Postby Angry Whiteguy » Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:44 pm

DarkFairy wrote:
Joe Average Whiteguy wrote:
DarkFairy wrote:CGM,

I am so glad to see that it wasn't just me who could see the contradiction in those pages. I knew there was other things people had to do to obtain salvation but I didn't know the verses to go with them so I generalized. :)

I'll write more later, gotta cook supper right now.

What are we having..?


Umm... Pork chops baked in white wine, butter, onion, rosemary and some other goodies, Green beans and probably mac and cheese since I don't have any potatoes at the moment. lol or maybe hashbrowns....ain't decided. (those are frozen, I ain't crazy) :)

What time should I arrive..?
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Re: Your Opinons on this

Postby clark bailey » Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:45 pm

Campground Man wrote:
DarkFairy wrote:Me too Funk, I respect CGM and have intended on going to his Church on a couple of occasions but I have yet to make it down there. (nice to see ya CGM, been a while!)

Also, CGM, I was at a funeral one time and the preacher did the exact same thing you were talking about and I was pissed! It was so disrespectful and uncalled for to say something like that when someone is grieving over a lost loved one. I think maybe they are trying to take advantage of the persons unstable emotional state when they do that.


Gfunk and DF,

I'd be happy to have you visit, we get very few local visitors and would appreciate having you guys attend with us. The only harrassment you'd receive is a lot of folks saying 'Hi' before the service and maybe some handshakes afterwords.

As for what you (DF) said about the links - yes they are absolutely contradictory. Read all through Acts and show me any conversions that occurred where they guy was alone with his own thoughts or without repentence. There are several things that people had to "do" in order to become a Christian within the bible.

To gain salvation a person has to DO several things...

They had to believe - Hebrews 11, and dozens of other verses.
They had to repent - Luke 13:3 Jesus said you'd perish without it. (to me this is the HARDEST one has to do)
They have to confess Christ - Rom 10:9-10
They have to be baptized for the remission of sins - Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16, 1 Peter 3:21 (and about 4 more scriptures)

They had to live faithful unto death. II Tim 4:7, Rev 2:10.

In a nutshell what we HAVE to do, to obtain salvation is OBEY God.

Because we obey, did we earn it? No, we don't deserve salvation even if we live right - it is a gift.

If I told you that I'd give you a free Tee Shirt for signing a form at my office - does signing the form mean that you "earned" a free shirt?

Would you receive the free shirt if you didn't obey the terms to receive it?

Now compare that analogy with that of God's promise. Salvation is free, but you do what he said to receive the free gift.



The links provided were an attempt to give a small history of the "altar call" and not to espouse, per say, any of the doctrines contained therein. I assumed that would be obvious but let me make that clear at this time.

I will state the doctrine of Calvinism that is put forth in at least one of the links purports to be truth is something I do not agree with and in fact I find it reprehensible and a stumbling block for people to faith.

But the links were an attempt to provide a sort of a history of the "altar call"..
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Re: Your Opinons on this

Postby DarkFairy » Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:06 pm

Joe Average Whiteguy wrote:What time should I arrive..?


Sry Joe, didn't see this until now or you sure could'a came for dinner. I got some Pork Chops left though? 8-) They were yummy, and I gotta say, I made the frozen hashbrowns like I would normally make fried potatoes and they were DEEEE-licious! :)
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Re: Your Opinons on this

Postby DarkFairy » Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:12 pm

clark bailey wrote:
Campground Man wrote:
DarkFairy wrote:Me too Funk, I respect CGM and have intended on going to his Church on a couple of occasions but I have yet to make it down there. (nice to see ya CGM, been a while!)

Also, CGM, I was at a funeral one time and the preacher did the exact same thing you were talking about and I was pissed! It was so disrespectful and uncalled for to say something like that when someone is grieving over a lost loved one. I think maybe they are trying to take advantage of the persons unstable emotional state when they do that.


Gfunk and DF,

I'd be happy to have you visit, we get very few local visitors and would appreciate having you guys attend with us. The only harrassment you'd receive is a lot of folks saying 'Hi' before the service and maybe some handshakes afterwords.

As for what you (DF) said about the links - yes they are absolutely contradictory. Read all through Acts and show me any conversions that occurred where they guy was alone with his own thoughts or without repentence. There are several things that people had to "do" in order to become a Christian within the bible.

To gain salvation a person has to DO several things...

They had to believe - Hebrews 11, and dozens of other verses.
They had to repent - Luke 13:3 Jesus said you'd perish without it. (to me this is the HARDEST one has to do)
They have to confess Christ - Rom 10:9-10
They have to be baptized for the remission of sins - Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16, 1 Peter 3:21 (and about 4 more scriptures)

They had to live faithful unto death. II Tim 4:7, Rev 2:10.

In a nutshell what we HAVE to do, to obtain salvation is OBEY God.

Because we obey, did we earn it? No, we don't deserve salvation even if we live right - it is a gift.

If I told you that I'd give you a free Tee Shirt for signing a form at my office - does signing the form mean that you "earned" a free shirt?

Would you receive the free shirt if you didn't obey the terms to receive it?

Now compare that analogy with that of God's promise. Salvation is free, but you do what he said to receive the free gift.



The links provided were an attempt to give a small history of the "altar call" and not to espouse, per say, any of the doctrines contained therein. I assumed that would be obvious but let me make that clear at this time.

I will state the doctrine of Calvinism that is put forth in at least one of the links purports to be truth is something I do not agree with and in fact I find it reprehensible and a stumbling block for people to faith.

But the links were an attempt to provide a sort of a history of the "altar call"..


The switch of conversation direction was my fault and I do apologize for it clark.

The links were very informative regarding altar calls and how they came about, thank you for the information I really do appreciate it. It is very odd how they just all of the sudden 'appeared' and people really believe they are the best route. I just don't understand that. No one wants to admit their faults or admit their misdeeds, especially to admit them by standing up in the middle of church service with 50-100 people's eyes on you, judging you as you walk down an aisle which seems neverending....No, I don't in any way think this is the best approach.
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