King Obama To Grant Amnesty!?!?

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Re: King Obama To Grant Amnesty!?!?

Postby goat47 » Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:39 pm

CrissyAlwaysSunny wrote:The White House is preparing Sheriff Joe's pardon!!!


As he should.
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Re: King Obama To Grant Amnesty!?!?

Postby Legion » Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:33 pm

Let Joe Go!!!
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Re: King Obama To Grant Amnesty!?!?

Postby Pappy » Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:52 pm

Legion wrote:Let Joe Go!!!

We agree on this subject Legion.
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Re: King Obama To Grant Amnesty!?!?

Postby Cate McCalley » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:04 am

Pappy wrote:
Legion wrote:Let Joe Go!!!


We agree on this subject Legion.


The POTUS has the power to pardon anyone found guilty of violating our law. Certainly we have seen this before from many former Presidents.

Personally it doesn't matter to me if the President pardons Sheriff Joe. What does matter is the intent behind a pardon.

Sheriff Joe was found guilty of racial profiling. He was ordered by the court to stop. He didn't. He responded by publically proclaiming he had no intention of following the court's order. He in effect said to the Court 'I have a gun, you dont'. The Court then held Sheriff Joe in contempt , and sentenced him accordingly.

The problem with Sheriff Joes racial profiling, instructing his officers to stop people that appeared to be Latino and demand they show papers to verify they were legally authorized to be in the U.S. is there is no Arizona State law that requires you must be legally authorized to be within the borders of the State of Arizona.

If there was such a law, Sheriff Joe and his officers would have been perfectly correct to enforce that law. No one, including law enforcement has a right to violate the law. The law doesn't concern itself with anything other than whether it is upheld or violated.

In Sheriff Joe's case he willfully and knowingly violated federal Civil Rights laws that prohibit racial profiling, and the State Law that does not authorize or require that any person be legally authorized to be within Arizona's borders.

No doubt Sheriff Joe believed that in going beyond the duties of what he was legally authorized to do was the moral and right thing to do. There are many instances when people, including law enforcement step outside the boundaries and violate the law because they feel it's the moral and right thing to do.

The Rule of Law only works if it can be justly applied to everyone. Everyone, regardless of their position, status, political, religious or any other circumstance or belief, is above the law.

That brings us to the purpose of a pardon for Sheriff's Joe.

Is the purpose to right an injustice? Was Sheriff Joe innocent of Civil Rights and Contempt of Court violations? Would a pardon rectify that wrong?

Or is Sheriff Joe guilty of violating federal Civil Rights and a State Contempt of Court Laws? Would a pardon undermine our Rule of Law that applies to everyone including law enforcement?

Sheriff Joe lost his bid for re-election. He lost his court appeals. Perhaps he has lost enough. But who loses if he is pardoned, other than everyone that depends on our Rule of Law to be fair and just to everyone, including law enforcement?


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Re: King Obama To Grant Amnesty!?!?

Postby Briscoe » Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:37 am

Cate McCalley wrote:
Pappy wrote:
Legion wrote:Let Joe Go!!!


We agree on this subject Legion.


The POTUS has the power to pardon anyone found guilty of violating our law. Certainly we have seen this before from many former Presidents.

Personally it doesn't matter to me if the President pardons Sheriff Joe. What does matter is the intent behind a pardon.

Sheriff Joe was found guilty of racial profiling. He was ordered by the court to stop. He didn't. He responded by publically proclaiming he had no intention of following the court's order. He in effect said to the Court 'I have a gun, you dont'. The Court then held Sheriff Joe in contempt , and sentenced him accordingly.

The problem with Sheriff Joes racial profiling, instructing his officers to stop people that appeared to be Latino and demand they show papers to verify they were legally authorized to be in the U.S. is there is no Arizona State law that requires you must be legally authorized to be within the borders of the State of Arizona.

If there was such a law, Sheriff Joe and his officers would have been perfectly correct to enforce that law. No one, including law enforcement has a right to violate the law. The law doesn't concern itself with anything other than whether it is upheld or violated.

In Sheriff Joe's case he willfully and knowingly violated federal Civil Rights laws that prohibit racial profiling, and the State Law that does not authorize or require that any person be legally authorized to be within Arizona's borders.

No doubt Sheriff Joe believed that in going beyond the duties of what he was legally authorized to do was the moral and right thing to do. There are many instances when people, including law enforcement step outside the boundaries and violate the law because they feel it's the moral and right thing to do.

The Rule of Law only works if it can be justly applied to everyone. Everyone, regardless of their position, status, political, religious or any other circumstance or belief, is above the law.

That brings us to the purpose of a pardon for Sheriff's Joe.

Is the purpose to right an injustice? Was Sheriff Joe innocent of Civil Rights and Contempt of Court violations? Would a pardon rectify that wrong?

Or is Sheriff Joe guilty of violating federal Civil Rights and a State Contempt of Court Laws? Would a pardon undermine our Rule of Law that applies to everyone including law enforcement?

Sheriff Joe lost his bid for re-election. He lost his court appeals. Perhaps he has lost enough. But who loses if he is pardoned, other than everyone that depends on our Rule of Law to be fair and just to everyone, including law enforcement?

then you can say the same thing about other presidents that have pardoned people.
"get that son of a bitch off the field...he's fired." - donald trump
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Re: King Obama To Grant Amnesty!?!?

Postby Cate McCalley » Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:41 am

Briscoe wrote:
Cate McCalley wrote:
Pappy wrote:
We agree on this subject Legion.


The POTUS has the power to pardon anyone found guilty of violating our law. Certainly we have seen this before from many former Presidents.

Personally it doesn't matter to me if the President pardons Sheriff Joe. What does matter is the intent behind a pardon.

Sheriff Joe was found guilty of racial profiling. He was ordered by the court to stop. He didn't. He responded by publically proclaiming he had no intention of following the court's order. He in effect said to the Court 'I have a gun, you dont'. The Court then held Sheriff Joe in contempt , and sentenced him accordingly.

The problem with Sheriff Joes racial profiling, instructing his officers to stop people that appeared to be Latino and demand they show papers to verify they were legally authorized to be in the U.S. is there is no Arizona State law that requires you must be legally authorized to be within the borders of the State of Arizona.

If there was such a law, Sheriff Joe and his officers would have been perfectly correct to enforce that law. No one, including law enforcement has a right to violate the law. The law doesn't concern itself with anything other than whether it is upheld or violated.

In Sheriff Joe's case he willfully and knowingly violated federal Civil Rights laws that prohibit racial profiling, and the State Law that does not authorize or require that any person be legally authorized to be within Arizona's borders.

No doubt Sheriff Joe believed that in going beyond the duties of what he was legally authorized to do was the moral and right thing to do. There are many instances when people, including law enforcement step outside the boundaries and violate the law because they feel it's the moral and right thing to do.

The Rule of Law only works if it can be justly applied to everyone. Everyone, regardless of their position, status, political, religious or any other circumstance or belief, is subjected to our Rule of Law.

That brings us to the purpose of a pardon for Sheriff's Joe.

Is the purpose to right an injustice? Was Sheriff Joe innocent of Civil Rights and Contempt of Court violations? Would a pardon rectify that wrong?

Or is Sheriff Joe guilty of violating federal Civil Rights and a State Contempt of Court Laws? Would a pardon undermine our Rule of Law that applies to everyone including law enforcement?

Sheriff Joe lost his bid for re-election. He lost his court appeals. Perhaps he has lost enough. But who loses if he is pardoned, other than everyone that depends on our Rule of Law to be fair and just to everyone, including law enforcement?


then you can say the same thing about other presidents that have pardoned people.


And I do say the same thing. I asked the same question about any Presidential pardon. Is the pardon to rectify an unjust conviction? Such as pardoning someone that was wrongfully accused, found guilty who was truly innocent? Or is the pardon for someone that was not wrongfully accused found guilty, and is truly guilty? The latter obviously a political pardon.

The power of them President to pardon is not limited to rectifying injustices done using the constructs of our Rule if Law. It is also available for use for political purposes.

Trump pardoning Sheriff Joe for political purposes is no different that other Presudents doing the same.

My questions are these; Do political pardons undermine our Rule of Law? And do they enable the Executive Branch with powers that exempt certain individuals from our Rule of Law? If so, is this supported by our Constitution?


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Re: King Obama To Grant Amnesty!?!?

Postby VoteMout » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:54 pm

Do we need to discuss some of Bill Clinton's pardons?
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Re: King Obama To Grant Amnesty!?!?

Postby Cate McCalley » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:54 pm

VoteMout wrote:Do we need to discuss some of Bill Clinton's pardons?


I think we're discussing the Constitutional authority of any President to pardon anyone for political purposes, including Bill Clinton.

I don't know the intent behind the authority given to the President to pardon. I kinda think maybe political pardons were not exempted, because pardoning people violating laws may have done so before the law was changed. Including laws that were broken while advocating for political change that were ultimately changed. I don't know. I'm curious.


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Re: King Obama To Grant Amnesty!?!?

Postby Political Plague » Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:44 pm

The President has the authority to pardon anyone convicted of any crime.
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Re: King Obama To Grant Amnesty!?!?

Postby Cate McCalley » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:02 pm

Political Plague wrote:The President has the authority to pardon anyone convicted of any crime.


Trump may believe he can parole a convict just by a post on his Twitter account. There are rules, even for a Presidential pardon. One is the person must be a convict. Sheriff Joe hasn't even been sentenced, much less spent 5 years in prison.

Trump playing to his Alt Right base, inferring a pardon and proposing executive authority before the ball is even pitched into his court, just reveals more politics to fire up his extreme Alt Right base. Creating more division and strife in America.


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Re: King Obama To Grant Amnesty!?!?

Postby Briscoe » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:54 pm

Cate McCalley wrote:
Political Plague wrote:The President has the authority to pardon anyone convicted of any crime.


Trump may believe he can parole a convict just by a post on his Twitter account. There are rules, even for a Presidential pardon. One is the person must be a convict. Sheriff Joe hasn't even been sentenced, much less spent 5 years in prison.

Trump playing to his Alt Right base, inferring a pardon and proposing executive authority before the ball is even pitched into his court, just reveals more politics to fire up his extreme Alt Right base. Creating more division and strife in America.

so much for your bullshit. the sheriff has just been pardoned.
"get that son of a bitch off the field...he's fired." - donald trump
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Re: King Obama To Grant Amnesty!?!?

Postby Cate McCalley » Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:44 pm

What did he Pardon him for Briscoe? The Court Case wasn't completed. Sheriff Joe hadn't even received sentencing.

Your President is so divisive and hate filled he can't go a full day without stirring controversy. He so badly wants a race war he just can't contain himself.

Your President wants people out in the street protesting because an old racist found guilty of Contempt by a Court Law because he rufused to stop racial profiling, after the Court ordered him to stop.

Your President wants angry people in the street protesting this old racist getting away with breaking the law, giving his middle finger to law he was sworn to uphold.

Some people might oblige your President, take to the streets where another one your Presidents cowardly Alt Right devils can run over them. I sure hope not.

The old racist isn't worth it. The voters stopped 'ole racist Joe anyway. No need for anybody to get upset. The 'ole boy is 85, a pardon doesn't mean anything to him. It only gave your President an opportunity to stir more racial division. That's nothing new.


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Re: King Obama To Grant Amnesty!?!?

Postby Briscoe » Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:43 am

Cate McCalley wrote:What did he Pardon him for Briscoe? The Court Case wasn't completed. Sheriff Joe hadn't even received sentencing.

Your President is so divisive and hate filled he can't go a full day without stirring controversy. He so badly wants a race war he just can't contain himself.

Your President wants people out in the street protesting because an old racist found guilty of Contempt by a Court Law because he rufused to stop racial profiling, after the Court ordered him to stop.

Your President wants angry people in the street protesting this old racist getting away with breaking the law, giving his middle finger to law he was sworn to uphold.

Some people might oblige your President, take to the streets where another one your Presidents cowardly Alt Right devils can run over them. I sure hope not.

The old racist isn't worth it. The voters stopped 'ole racist Joe anyway. No need for anybody to get upset. The 'ole boy is 85, a pardon doesn't mean anything to him. It only gave your President an opportunity to stir more racial division. That's nothing new.

that's what he was pardoned for. stubborn dummy.
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Re: King Obama To Grant Amnesty!?!?

Postby Cate McCalley » Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:52 am

I get that Briscoe.

My question of 'what did Trump pardon 'ole Joe for', goes to the heart of not 'what' but why.

Which other President has ever pardoned anyone convicted of a crime, but not yet sentenced? I don't believe any President at any time has done this.

So why would this President?

There might be more than one reason.

The first that comes to mind is Trump loves racial and political division. His remarks assigning blame to 'many sides' for the violence, murder and critical injury of 19 others in Charlottesville recently was more than a wink to white Supremist that they were not to blame. It was a single of approval of Alt Right violence.

Next Trump pardons a law man that spent a good part of his life, breaking Civil Rights laws that prohibit discrimination and racial profiling. Even though his pardon did not meet any of the standards of any previous Presidential pardon. Again that was more than a wink to our law enforcement that he approves of lawlessness from our law enforcement. An approval for law enforcement to break our laws with impunity.

Another reason might be Trump using the opportunity to pardon 'ole Joe before sentencing, or before 'ole Joe had spent anytime incarcerated was clear message that he has the power to pardon anyone that violates, including those that broke the law in helping elect him. A message that they would not spend one day incarcerated, or pay for their crimes in any way, shape, form or fashion.

Your President has shown that he does not respect our Rule of Law. Not only in this instance, but many others, beginning with his attempt to violate our Constitution's guarantee of freedom of religion. Trump's actions are not just attempts of 'over reaching' the limits of the law. He is challenging our other equally powerful branch of government's authority, our judicial courts system charged with the responsibility to enforce our Rule of Law.

'Ole Joe wasn't pardoned for any other reason than to stir racial hatred and division, and to send a clear message to our front line Law Enforcement they were free to violate our Rule of Law.

These are the same tactics Adolf Hitler used with the Brown Shirts in Germany that targeted Jews and others, and declared them 'undesirable'. They broke the Germany's laws, then set about to change them into the rule of the Third Reich.

Here's the not so recent news; Hitler's Germany failed. Berlin was turned into rubble. I know Trump will be stopped long before he can forment enough chaos and division to underpin another Third Reich. What we don't know yet is when.

BTW, has anybody noticed that Trump's head looks square from the back view? I wonder if his comb over doo is hiding horns on the back of his head? Lol! Seriously, he's hiding something with that doo, and it ain't just baldness.


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Re: King Obama To Grant Amnesty!?!?

Postby Demon Hunter » Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:44 pm

In a op ed in the USA Today the Dept of Homeland Security head states that Arizonas wall on the southern border works.
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